Kieffe & Sons, a Ford dealership in California, has been running a radio ad since approximately February telling people who support the separation of church(es) and state and atheists to “sit down and shut up” .
The ad, found at The Consumerist, has a man saying:
Did you know that there are people in this country who want prayer out of schools, “Under God” out of the Pledge, and “In God We Trust” to be taken off our money?
But did you know that 86% of Americans say they believe in God? Now, since we all know that 86 out of every 100 of us are Christians who believe in God, we at Kieffe & Sons Ford wonder why we don’t just tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up. I guess maybe I just offended 14% of the people who are listening to this message.
Well, if that is the case, then I say that’s tough, this is America folks, it’s called free speech. And none of us at Kieffe & Sons Ford are afraid to speak up. Kieffe & Sons Ford on Sierra Highway in Mojave and Rosamond: if we don’t see you today, by the grace of God, we’ll be here tomorrow.
This is some classic Christian supremacism here in case you didn’t notice.
Kieffe and sons have a right to say whatever the fuck they want cause “this is America folks, it’s called free speech” but anyone who disagrees with Kieffe and his boys needs to “sit down and shut up“.
In other words, constitutional rights are fine and dandy just as long as one doesn’t go too far and think that they give one a right to not only practice those rights free of Christian interference but use them to speak out against and/or work to end Christian supremacism.
Then it’s all “there are more of us than there are of you so obey or be punished”.
Can’t you feel the love?
UPDATE: Just wanted to point out some great letters in the comment section by Jenny & Brian. If you’re on Facebook and are interested Amanda has started up a user group about this . You can contact the dealership at the link above and Ford. Feel free to copy & paste your letters in the comment section below.
UPDATE 2: JW Horne, the apparent producer behind this ad has decided to join us with this comment claiming, in short, we’s all be stupid mofo’s who just don’t get it.
UPDATE 3: JW might think we’re idiots, but Kieffe & Sons has apparently realized that it stepped over the line and has issued an apology for the ad.
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You know… If there was an atheist car dealership that did the same thing, the Christians would literally explode from sheer pissed-offedness. These fanatics should grow up and move into the 21st century and stop trying to hide their bigotry behind their religion. They just can’t help but stick their noses where they don’t belong. Power to the free thinkers.
How flawed an argument they use. My mom and dad claim to believe in a god but don’t think there should be prayer in school. Is there any chance that supposed 86% does all agree with their fundy point of view. Maybe only half believe pushing their thoughts on another.
The funny thing is the 86% that claim to believe in something cannot even agree on much other then the word “god”.
So basically their hatred for the other 14% is because the 14% doesn’t mindlessly believe in “something” other then nothing.
My grandma cannot discuss or argue any of these points that most atheists want to discuss but she sure has a fired up hatred for anyone who disagrees. She cannot even defend bible passages nor goes to church but she really knows it all!
That’s just sad.. I thank my lucky star (not that I believe in such things) that I live in a country where the atheists and agnostics are in majority. Depending on which poll you look at, Sweden is said to have between 70-85% non-religious people. And guess what? I never see atheists here trying to oppress people in any way that resembles this.
I guess that people don’t become intolerant just because they are in the majority. Not that all Christians oppress people where they are in majority either, but many of them do seem to have a greater tendency to do stuff like this.
It’s quite an assumption to believe the the 86% of folks who believe in God are Christian, let alone the particular kind of Christian that the car dealership is sporting.
Write ford and complain! You can follow the links at the bottom of ford.com to contact the corporate office. Be polite and let them know that you were offended.
I did this yesterday afternoon and have yet to receive a response.
My siblings and I spent our school days in parochial schools fro 1st to seniors at high school. The last phase of fundamentalism occurred in the early 1950′s and the prayer that was said in public schools at the time was Protestant in form. This caused the Catholic church to build it’s impressive array of schools across the country. Keep YOUR religion out of MY life!
I want to move to Sweden!!
I think religion is the core of all evil in the world.
Religion is keeping people dumb and dumber. People are free spirits and have minds of their own. Free people use them and think for them self. I am free of all religions and people wanting to tell me how to live my life. I think all people should be freed of religion to save human kind.
You are a better person without religions.
If you have an invisible friend you should go to a psychiatrist.
Wow what bigoted hypocritical jerks. I hope nobody buys a car from these idiots. Whatever happened to running a business on the idea that “your money is good with us”?
I wish they would realise that god isn’t real and they’re all just a bunch of deluded people that believe in something someone made up one day to give you the answer to how the world was created and where we go when we die. LOL, read Darwin or do something useful! So glad im British and not caught up in the whirlwind of religion that america is!
I would like to know some before and after sales statistics of this place over the next couple of weeks.
Mad world you Americans live in !
Have emailed Ford to ask if this is now their policy globally and if they have ditched their diversity at work policy in favour (favor>?) of a one true god at work policy?
Expect a reply from them sometime never !
Ha. Pot and kettle action on Fords behalf.
“Hey, we have the freedom to talk shit, but you don’t”
That’s ok, their vehicles suck anyway.
I sent this email to both FORD and the dealership.
To Whom It May Concern,
I recently came across a transcript of your commercials telling those who wish to preserve the separation of church as state to “sit down and shut up.” While you have every right to express your opinion, apparently free speech is only a value to you on YOUR terms, only if someone is saying what YOU want to hear. That is not what the free speech clause of the first amendment is about. Free speech protects the minorty from being subject to oppression by the majority. It’s purpose is to protect unpopular ideas.
President Abraham Lincoln was told to sit down and shut up for his unpopular idea to free the slaves. Good thing for African Americans, he didn’t. African Americans were told to sit down and shut up. They did no such thing, and fought long and hard for their rights, to vote and be treated equally. Women were told to sit down and shut up, but they fought long and hard for their rights, to vote and to be treated equally. The lesbian and gay community is still being told to sit down and shut up, but they continue to fight for equality in this county. And so shall atheists, agnostics, freethinkers, and theists of all religions including CHRISTIANS who support the separation of church and state.
Sincerely and In Reason,
Jenny Lees
WOW! I live in the area where that company has advertised, but I never imagined their ad saying something like this! Well, the Antelope Valley (Mojave, etc) is sort of the Bible-belt of California, so I guess it’s not too much of a surprise.
Even so, I’m disgusted. I, too, will be writing Ford.
I went to their website and sent them this email…..
I have made a Facebook group concerning this. You can join here:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14219214787
my mom works for Ford and she’s told me many of the much more liberal things the company does as a whole. i promise this dealership won’t be without reprimanding from the corporation for long.
Well said Brian.
And Christians have the gall to call atheists intolerant and immoral. This is sickening, but it’s so common of how people think. “We’re the majority, so we’re right.” Does history record any case in which the majority was right? [Lazarus Long]
its a complete contradiction, it makes no sense!
It’s the country of free speech, so the atheists and none- believers are perfectly allowed to speak out against it being written on notes and taken out of the school system… hence the basis of free speech… telling us to shut up is like saying were not allowed free speech?? Whoever wrote this is seriously closed minded and stupid, frankly. The nullified their own argument.
Second… atheists don’t actually care about it being on anything – we’re not about oppression and enforcing our ideologies on others… besides I knew a girl at school whose family were atheist and simply requested that she didnt attend assembly each morning where everyone had to say a prayer and that was fine.
So no, he didnt offend 14% reading it… I was’nt because I never speak out against it – atheists don’t! He actually proberly just offended his own 86% again because it’s most likely christians fighting for equality for everyone, which is fine if they want to do that. So I think we can agree this statement should of… at least, lost them business – they technically tried to offend 14%, and actively trying to offend us is offensive, not what was actually said and they also offended the other 86%, so they offended 100% of people which isnt good customer relations.
Good going Kieffe & Sons Ford, you idiots.
I’m an atheist and free-thinker, but want to point out that this ad is not representative of the majority of religious thinkers. There are dumb and bigoted thinkers of all stripes, and Newton, Darwin, Joseph Campbell, FDR, Gandhi, Socrates, and brilliant folks too numerous to mention all valued religion. I know as many dumb advocates of atheism as i do dumb Christians (though admittedly maybe because i don’t hang with that many Christians). it’s important to remember not to think and speak in demeaning categories while claiming the moral high ground.
As an ANTI-theist, my belief that the ‘religiosity’ of those outspoken bigots whether christian, islamists, taoists, maoists does not have any place on Planet Earth.
YES, as I learned the pledge of aliegence during WWII, there was not present “under god”. When it got inserted, the whole flow of the meaningnful pledge crashed.
Moreover, the founders of this nation did not intend this to be a religious swamp. Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, Madison all were free with their opinions that religion did not belong in government.
Let’s REALLY go back to the intent of the Founding Fathers!
I love how he says “that 86% of Americans say they believe in God” and then says that they are all Christian. He doesn’t even acknowledge Jews, Muslims, etc. Just wanted to point that out.
Hey folks. I am the one who wrote and produced the spot. I am not afraid to tell the truth. Frankly I don’t care whether you liked it or not. Like I said in the ad. Thats tough. I will point out something to you. None of you have the whole truth.
The ad has been sliced and diced by others and amended to fit their agenda. It seems that some such as Amanda are trying to find a way to make money off it. I see it in lots of places on the net. I bet there are plenty of people who are saying oboy oboy I found something controversial that I can distort and maybe make some money off it. I think that is funny and opportunistic and phoney.
I own the copyrights and I suggest that no one messes with it. If you don’t like it and disagree with it, thats okay with me but I do think that you would really want the true facts before you form your objections.
There was a reason behind the production and the verbage. I suggest that before you get too upset, you at least find out what the truth is. Of course none of you have bothered to find the truth, heck no, that might ruin my objective. I wrote it and recorded it and sent it to the stations. I am not afraid of speaking the truth. Perhaps, before YOU do any more speaking, you would like to know the facts. I know what they are, do you?
Well, JW, don’t hold us in suspense. Tell us the “whole truth”, show us how it’s been “sliced and diced”, how it’s been “distorted” and what these “facts” are as well as your “reason” for producing such an ad.
I have to say, the “anti-theist” idea isn’t the best in the world. You should respect the religions of others. It’s their beliefs. However, this calls to mind a recent TIME article about how some parents are opting out of vaccinations for their kids because of religious beliefs. If you read further into the article, you’ll learn about how some diseases are breaking out again because of these unimmunized children. This is worrying health officials, and, frankly, it’s worrying me. I mean, true, we should all have the right to decide, but if it affects other people in a serious way like this, then a higher authority should take action. There are rules, you know. No offense to anybody who thinks the opposite. That’s just my opinion.
Something tells me that was completely random. But, anyway…
That doesn’t mean we can’t get along. I have a good friend who is Christian, and I’m agnostic. We just don’t talk too much about religion.
More extremely biased ranting here (which doesn’t fairly (and nicely, for that matter) represent my views, for anyone who gets offended): That’s stupid. If those religious nuts haven’t noticed yet, just because the major religion in the U.S. is Christianity doesn’t mean that they get to put all of their “Under God” crap everywhere, especially in the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE (*cough cough*). Hey to all you idiot Christian extremists: If you want a religious government, go to IRAN. I’m sure President Ahmadinejad would be happy to hook you guys up with those idiot Islamic extremists who think that the West (and Christianity, really) are a scourge. Also, the idea that Christians get to CAPITALIZE “God” doesn’t make sense. Why is it that THEY get to do it while everybody else has to stick with “god”? Also, English teachers should be screaming. The word “god” is a common noun. Yet, these idiots get to make it into a PROPER noun. Another thing: on the part of the Christians, that’s slack. What is, you night ask? Being so slack as to be unoriginal and steal a synonym for a deity and use it as a NAME for said deity.
Might I mention something? Christians, Jews, and Muslims all believe in the same deity. So why are said religions arguing?
All I have to say is: Geez, WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
I wrote Ford instead of Kieffe and Sons. If anything is done about it, it will be on Ford’s end. There’s no talking sense into people like that so I didn’t even bother.
Hey everybody! I needed to add something to my above comment. When you write Ford, make sure to send it to the Public Affairs office. I believe they will deal with this rather harshly.
JW Horne, I read your comment after posting. I just have a few things to say. If you feel that KC somehow altered the message you were trying to convey, please tell us what you meant. The way I understood your message was, “We’re in the majority, so all you people in the minority, shut your mouth and let us do what we want because the majority is always right. Although, didn’t the majority of Romans love watching Christians get devoured by lions in the Colosseaum
Did you actually have a boss that approved this ad? If I were a salesman at your dealership, I’d be pissed at you for alienating a large percentage of customers. But hey, I guess prayer in school is more important than your salesmen feeding their family. Just what our schools need. More distractions. Congratulations! You offended a bunch of people NATIONALLY. Maybe Jesus will save you from losing your job.
sent this one in to the kieffe and sons. i thought i was a lot more polite than they deserved, but it’s only ok for them to be outraged, not me.
Sirs,
Your ad embodies the most disquieting aspect of religion, in my mind: that you think your beliefs are true, no matter what evidence is arrayed against them, despite a lack of any kind of proof for them, and, finally but certainly not least, that anyone with ideas or beliefs contradictory to your own are summarily wrong and said individual does not have the right to express their ideas or beliefs – some may be so bold as to say that they should not even be allowed to have such beliefs and should be put to death for their heresy. But maybe they read the word of God too literally?
As to the content of the ad itself, which displays another disturbing trend of religions, it not only bends the facts, but blatantly breaks them. Your figure of 86% of Americans being Christians is absurdly false. This figure may have been accurate in 1990 – the information I’ve seen places the figure at about 76.5% in 2001. And I daresay that this is a generous figure, given the blatant persecution that your ad displays, it is no wonder that there are so many cases of ‘closet atheism’.
Another factual error is your assumption that Americans are either Christian or they non-religious. Nothing could be further from the truth, but since, judging by the content of your ad, you do not seem at all interested in what the truth might be, but only in your narrow view of the world, this is hardly surprising.
I will not sit down and shut up. I will exercise my freedom of speech and will do so even more fervently in order to separate the church from the state.
Good day,
Jason
Some one might ought to get a recording of this ad — just in case.
Mr. Horne,
I would be more than happy to see the “truth” of the ad (though I don’t see how KC’s slight editing could possibly change the message that this ad is sending out). So please, link us to the full original ad.
Also, this has nothing to do with money as you suggested. I’m just upset that this ignorance nonsense has manifested itself publicly where I live.
Here is a link to the ad. It’s exactly the same as KC posted at the top.
http://www.mediafire.com/?g1f492lbruy
via: http://undergroundunbeliever.blogspot.com/2008/05/some-exciting-newsabout-ad.html
Why is it that those who profess to be Christian fail to understand the teachings of their Messiah, and those who are not religious seem more inclined to live by the words supposedly spoken by Christ in his Sermon on the Mount? Huh? Howcum?
rambler
** the “God” on money is NOT a xian god”
Courts have consistently held that ‘God’ as in the notorious “In God We Trust” refers to a one-size-fits-all unique DEISTIC divinity — creator, sustainer of the universe consistent with Western tradition. This illegitimate ‘god of the state’ belongs to no religion. It is an hypothesized philosophical entity. I call IT (IT has no gender) the minimum standard god, or MSG.
I expect U.S. courts to trot out MSG as precedent for beating back an atheist’s challenge to the ‘under God’ clause in the pledge of allegiance — MSG is today invoked before each Supreme Court session and each House of Congress opens with a prayer — recently by a Hindu who was booed from the House Gallery by radical xian know-nothings.
The courts will argue that the concept of MSG does not violate the establishment clause. Traditionally, most Westerners averred that MSG would answer their basic notion of a ‘god.’ The MSG concept is certainly non-sectarian.
No one is legally obligated to equate MSG with that moral monster embraced by the late (unlamented) Falwell and all fundies. Or, the merely xian “God” of C.S. Lewis. Or, “God” as Paul Tillich’s “ultimate concern.” And, deists can claim that their “God” has no more interest in the universe than the gods of Epicurus.
bipolar2
© 2008
When xianity came to wield secular powers (313 CE) its alliance with the dying roman empire created a totalitarian state — fascistic not communistic . . . the days of sharing (in Acts) were long over.
** Live and Let Die **
Seven deadly Lies of the Big-4 near eastern monotheisms:
1. there is a “spiritual” dimension apart and “above” nature
2. nature displays design and evinces moral purpose
3. time is shallow (6,000 yrs) with an apocalyptic end
4. humanity represents the goal and apex of life on Earth
5. morality must have a religious (spiritual) foundation
6. each person must choose between “good” and “evil”
7. “truth” is absolute (and revealed in some ancient magical text)
Xianity, like its murderous look-alikes islam, judaism, zoroastrianism never offers anyone a choice to live-and-let-live. Conversion is not optional.
You must conform — abase yourself. Let your wishes, desires, and plans be dictated by some priest, pastor, imam, spiritual adviser, rabbi. Of course, hypocrites play a double game, but accept its *rules*.
And, if you’re too honest or brave to be a hypocrite? It depends — on how much power over life and death true believers have.
Psychologically I don’t see much difference between the Taliban in Afghanistan and bible-worshipers (fundies) spread like pond scum across the US. Without a vigorously enforced secular state, you and I would burn at the stake or receive a bullet in the head for disbelief.
For all true believers, this is their doctrine: “those not with us are against us” (Luke 11:23), or as Ian Fleming says, Live and Let Die.
bipolar2
© 2008
This reminds me of the creationism-evolution debate and how Christians think that just because they’re the major religious group in the U.S. means that they get to plaster their ways of living all over the culture of the U.S., disregarding the protests of atheists and agnostics who really don’t want that to happen.
Here’s an Atheist Eve comic strip that really defines what I think: http://www.atheist-community.org/atheisteve/index.php?id=19
I like that idea that bipolar2 has stated: “Those who are not with us are against us.” That sort of defines how the Christian supremacy thing works.
This story is absolutely hilarious!
The dealership should hang a sign: “Non-believers not welcome here”, or at least install separate drinking fountains for people who prefer not to believe in magical beings that live in the sky.
After the fallout from this bigotry, I don’t imagine their sales will suffer (nor increase), but they might as well start putting jeezus fish on all their cars automatically from now on.
Good job kids. You guys get 10,000 points for helping to get that garbage off the radio in my favorite state.
From http://www.kieffeandsons.com/
“This statement is provided in response to reaction prompted by a radio commercial that Kieffe & Sons Ford recently ran referring to issues of God in our schools and on our money.
“For 15 years, Kieffe and Sons Ford has run ad campaigns that focus on current events. We have chosen to do this rather than presenting typical car sales ads. We do this through an agency that develops the material and sends us a package of commercials to review. From this, we select commercials that we distribute to area radio stations. Frequently we emphasize humor and patriotic themes, as we are located adjacent to two military bases. Public response over these 15 years has been hugely positive, often eliciting calls and visits from appreciative individuals. Regrettably, the commercial that has prompted the current objection to religious sentiment (“Under God”, “In We Trust”) was not closely reviewed by our dealership before it went live. The commercial has been replaced. We apologize to all who were offended. It is Kieffe and Sons’ intention to support America and the freedoms that make this country great.”
Rick Kieffe, President “
I’d like to think the letters we sent to Ford had something to do with this:
Dear Michael,
Thank you for contacting the Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center regarding Kieffe and Sons Ford dealership radio advertisement.
Ford Motor Company is concerned with the satisfaction of all Ford and Lincoln-Mercury owners and potential customers. We regret the circumstances that have prompted you to contact us.
This specific issue has been addressed by Ford Motor Company personnel with appropriate representatives at Kieffe and Sons Ford in Mojave, California. Our investigation has determined that the advertising was placed in error. Corrective actions have been taken to prevent this from happening again.
Thank you for taking the time to bring this to our attention.
If you have any other inquiries, please feel free to contact us and we will be happy to address them for you.
Sincerely,
Marister
Customer Relationship Center
Ford Motor Company
That reply from Ford is a result… but its complete bullsh*t – They should have fired Keiffe and sons for bringing shame to Fords name – the founder of the automobile in America – its called “company pride”, Ford should be ashamed for keeping them in a dealership.
I am so offended I am now NOT going to by a Ford the next time I buy a car. I am a regular Ford customer. I am also going to write a letter to Ford Motor Company and show my displeasure.
If i had heard that in my area, i would have bought a few seconds airtime just to say “If you buy at Kieffe & Sons Ford, The terrorist are right, This a christian nation on a crusade against islam. If you boycott Kieffe & Sons Ford, You are saying ‘this is america, we still stand by our constitution’”
Hey Mark, if you think this is the only bad thing Ford’s ever done, think again. I live in Detroit and because of Ford, GM, and Chrysler we have no public transportation and a terrible economy. Also Henry Ford was an anti-Semite, and was given a medal by Hitler before the U.S. involvement in WWII. So if you think they were ever at all worried about “company pride,” you’re wrong.
Stupid ford dealers often use God and country to sell their subpar goods, which actually cheapens and insults God and our country. But of course the irony is not caught by their dumb target market. And it’s really not a big surprise that they are using this gimmick now, its just a lower threshold of their usual sleaze.
And like the ppl they are targeting, these folks have no brains, believing in God does not automatically believe in combining church and state. Many Christian folks believe that their religion is a private matter and certainly should be endorse by government.
There is a Dealer i wont be going to EVER.
To me, nothing could be more phoney than a religious apeal ad.
Said that, no matter what he says,its still BF.
So sad to see this kind of atitude, and these bad professionals…
It’s not a question of controversy, but yes a matter of rightousness.
Thers nothing right on the add.
I will always avoid buying anything from christian shops.
Not surprising. Mojave is a little hole of a town, it only exists as a commuter bypass from the Antelope Valley to Vegas or Bakersfield. That area is covered in scary religious ads and billboards. They were just advertising to their base, and probably never realized it would get out of their junky little town.
Wow! I had not heard this one before. In terms of pure marketing here is what they are doing -
Likley a great deal of the people who hear this radio commercial in this market will 100% agree with their ideology, and make their opinion of the dealership that much stronger.
Do they discuss the fact that the term “god” was only added to these things in the last 50 years, no. Do they discuss the fact that a great deal of the population would not agree with them – no. BUT, are they effectively reaching out to their target base of customers with a message that is stronger than “we wont be undersold” – yes. So all in all, it works for them in this select market. Is it right or wrong? I’m not going to judge it on terms of morality, is it effective in froms of marketing – yes.
Tony
http://www.bestradiocommercials.com
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