Driving down the freeway, I observe two men, both riding Harley-Davidson motorcycles, pass each other while heading in opposite directions……

For want of better words, ‘weak’ and ’strong’ atheists. (atheism does not have the language we need because of its centuries of ruthless suppression by suppression & censorship,punishment & death)Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

It is inevitable that they will conflict, but that is the nature of human interactions. Progress only comes through working these things through, one way or another over time. Ranting may make you feel better but it can be destructive when taken to such lengths. Just ally yourself with the side you are on and address the religious enemy. Don’t let the weak atheist ’steal your time’ by arguing with them.(though I know how tempting it is)

As far as I am concerned the latter group can think what they like, you cannot stop them, unfortunately they insist on trying to prevent strong atheist and are constantly sniping at them for their criticism and opposition to religions, so we cannot entirely ignore them.

But this is nothing to do with corruption, it is the natural state of any large group of people with one basic defining principle, in this case non-belief. Most people have inconsistencies in their thinking in the societies in which they have been conditioned.

These conflicts also affect many other progressive movements and if they let it, if they pander to the conservative elements withing their ranks they lose sight of the basic need for robust and courageous activism. Often it is the desire to gain ‘members’ at the expense of principle that is at the root, and gets worse when paid organisers are employed to promote the ’cause’.

I think KCs post is illogical and thoughtless, and damaging to the very concept of atheism and attacking superstition, sectarianism, sexism etc. and undermines the many strong atheists who already have as many enemies as they can cope with.

Like every other atheist I’ve met, I don’t consider myself to be part of the atheist movement. I stick up for other atheists, but then I try to stick up for people being unfairly criticised in general. What should I do?

Nevertheless, I have mixed feelings about the “out campaign” and the “good” vs. “bad” or “militant” atheist word games. Atheism is based on one item of non-belief, as you noted. It’s absurd to build a “movement” around something people don’t believe. You said, correctly, that “atheism itself is offensive.” Theists will never be able to tolerate, let alone accept, atheists on atheists’ terms. Their belief system prohibits it. We just need to accept that and deal with it.

Could we instead call the cause ’secularism’? I heard the president of the ACLU use the term ‘reasonists’ (or was it ‘rationalists’?) but I feel that implies that theists are not reasonable or rational. Most of them are. They just don’t put much effort into applying it to their theism.

Technically the movement can be corrupt as it lacks any power to misuse- the correct accusation would be dishonest.

When ever you have a cause you will have assholes. Please excuse them- they have realized that they know something that almost everyone on Earth doesn’t and the feeling of power and disgust at those who cling to their illusions makes them rather snappy.